A non-debater's comparison of Trek, Wars, Bab5 and 40K

Dabat · Post by **Dabat** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:53 am

Hmm, that's interesting, they don't act like such a thing is possible in the episodes I saw, maybe they just meant the cities like BDZ? Or I could just be remembering things wrong.

Mr. Oragahn · Post by **Mr. Oragahn** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:16 am

Dabat, if you post here, then you have an interest in vs debates.

Can of worms, can of worms... :D

Dabat · Post by **Dabat** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:38 am

Of course I do have an interest, I just had never taken part in any online discussion before.

Cocytus · Post by **Cocytus** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:50 am

Dabat wrote:Hmm, that's interesting, they don't act like such a thing is possible in the episodes I saw, maybe they just meant the cities like BDZ? Or I could just be remembering things wrong.

Well, most of Trek outside of DS9 doesn't play up the militaristic aspects much.

But in addition to Mike's examples, the Defiant poisoned the atmosphere of Solosos III in "For the Uniform" with trilithium resin, rendering the planet uninhabitable. In "Broken Link," Garak attempts to gain control of the Defiant's weapons systems as it orbits the Founder's planet, and Worf intervenes to stop him. In their brief exchange, Garak states we have enough firepower on this ship to reduce that planet to a smoking cinder.

The ability of Trek ships in general to devastate planetary surfaces and eradicate surface installations is well-established. The example Mike cites is from "A Taste of Armageddon," which is further strengthened by such examples as "Whom Gods Destroy" and "Bread and Circuses," both of which have characters describing the Enterprise as being capable of "wiping out" and "laying waste" to a planet. Now, I tend to agree with you Dabat that for most starships, G.O. 24 involves destroying all structures and installations, like BDZ.

However, more powerful classes, such as the Defiant, should be capable of inflicting considerably more damage, as "Broken Link" indicates. Given Garak's abilities at retrieving information, I tend to believe his statement.
The Defiant class appears to be fairly common by the mid 2370s (the Defiant herself, an unnamed vessel visible in the fleet at the end of "Call to Arms," the Valiant in Season 6, two in "Message in a Bottle," at least two in the "Endgame" fleet).

Post by **Jedi Master Spock** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:48 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote: Almost all the life? It destroyed all of it:

WORF: Some kind of plasma reaction is consuming the lower atmosphere.
PICARD: Can we stop it?
WORF: No, sir. The reaction is global.
DATA: All life on the planet is being destroyed, sir.
RIKER: Why would anyone want to destroy all the life on an uninhabited, neutral planet with no strategic importance whatsoever?

Well, they did manage to recover a bit of DNA.

Dabat wrote:Yes, but a craft like Solo's 'Falcon were not, nor are unarmed shuttles, though you are right and those should be upped to '(Most)'. I suppose just calling them craft under 60 meters was a little too vague.

Actually, the Millenium Falcon is up for making attack runs in the same way as a fighter - if anything, the Falcon has more firepower than a typical fighter, as seen in ROTJ when the Falcon's heavier missiles harm a target that a fighter's torpedoes cannot. I am not so certain there are very many unarmed shuttles in Star Wars.

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight · Post by **Airlocke_Jedi_Knight** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:14 pm

The Falcon also has Turbo laser canons(the quads) rather than just laser canons, like most starfighters. I believe that that the falcon uses concussion missiles rather than proton torpedoes. That might be the source of the power difference.

Mr. Oragahn · Post by **Mr. Oragahn** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:10 am

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight wrote:The Falcon also has Turbo laser canons(the quads) rather than just laser canons, like most starfighters. I believe that that the falcon uses concussion missiles rather than proton torpedoes. That might be the source of the power difference.

They're listed as mere quad laser cannons, no?

Post by **Mike DiCenso** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:53 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Airlocke_Jedi_Knight wrote:The Falcon also has Turbo laser canons(the quads) rather than just laser canons, like most starfighters. I believe that that the falcon uses concussion missiles rather than proton torpedoes. That might be the source of the power difference.
They're listed as mere quad laser cannons, no?

That's correct, as seen in this schematics diagram seen here from the "The Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels" book.
-Mike

Post by **Mike DiCenso** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:56 pm

Jedi Master Spock wrote: Well, they did manage to recover a bit of DNA.

That qualifies as life? ;-)
-Mike

Post by **Mike DiCenso** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:02 am

Dabat wrote:Hmm, that's interesting, they don't act like such a thing is possible in the episodes I saw, maybe they just meant the cities like BDZ? Or I could just be remembering things wrong.

If you mean Star Trek, not always. The G.O. 24 specifices the entire inhabited surface of a planet. In DS9's "The Die is Cast", the Romulans and Cardassian fleet was prepared to destroy a planet down to everything but the core.
-Mike