Parody of the SW vs ST debate

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Today, we have a monumental debate going; Darth Chang vs Light Moon!

Darth Chang: A mechanical engineer with a bachelors degree, Darth Chang is famous for starting the site aircraftcarrier.org*, a site that promotes the United States as the victor over the Numenorians in any military conflict. The site, told from the PoV of an American Naval Officer, has a very active board. It has been criticized for having a rather rude attitude towards idiots, and many have accused it of elitism. Change's website was inspired by the 21st Century Earth Technical Commentaries site.

Light Moon: A pro Middle Earth debater, Light Moon was banned from aircraftcarrier.org and started his own website, ME v RL. He stands by Middle Earth as the victor, and has a canon policy of not accepting any written books, arguing that they go against the spirit of the Founding Fathers.


After some intense debating over the validity of the written literature of RL, Light Moon allowed written text in exchange for allowing the Simillarion and other works.






*Remember; this is not a real story.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Darth Chang's opening post:

Even if we were to equalize the numbers and logistics of both sides; factors that, as I shall point out later, are heavily in favor of the United States, this is still a one sided curbstomp. The United States military has firearms that can shoot up to 1000 RPM with kilojoules of energy from hundreds of meters away. Tell me, Light Moon, how exactly are the Numenorians going to stop that? Even if their swords were extreme-wank-they-can-cut-through-ten-feet-of-steel magical items, it doesn't mean for jack shit if they get hit from a hundred meters away before they have any chance of actually hitting the soldiers.

That's the advantage that the US has; they can hit the Numernorians long before they can hit back, and at hundreds of rounds per minute, a Numenorian army of tens of thousands would be reduced and routed within minutes due to sheer volume of fire and the Numernorians' inability to do jack all to fight back.

This isn't even taking into account motars and artillery fire with megajoule level firepower, or hellfire missiles with gigajoule level firepower. How the fuck are Numenorians in close, medieval style shield formations going to cope with artillery pounding their position from literally beyond the horizon, taking out dozens of men per shot while they sit on their asses, cowering in fear?

As for beasts such as trolls, modern anti tank weaponry, design to penetrate modern composite armor, can easily blow a hole through a troll, who, as you seem to forget, is made out of you know, flesh, or simply massed small arms fire. A troll would have to run several hundred meters through hundreds of RPG's, M16's and other fire raining down on it.

This is compounded by the United State's airforce, which has complete monopoly over the Numenorians in every conceivable away. US aircraft can fly at over 40,000 feet; what the fuck will a Numenorian do against them? They can't even see the damn things, let along hit them! A B-2 bomber flying overhead a Numenorian formation could drop several MOABs, destroying the army and routing its remnants. The US has thousands of planes capable of doing just this, and there is quite literally jack all the primitive troops can do to fight back.

The numenorians cannot do jack. If they try and march on a city, they get shot to bits from beyond the horizon artillery strikes, or from supersonic aircraft several kilometers in the air. And we're talking about dozens of numenorians being wiped out per airstrike or artillery strike, and these can be called in rapid succession, often several times per second.

No amount of magic swords will do any good against someone that can hit you from across the horizon.

[Admiral Breetai]

seems like both parties in your fanfiction are stupid bastards.

mister "i have a degree and am a glorified janitor" is completely ignoring that First age Elf Dwarf and second age Numenorian steel is in many cases superior to our own and completely defies the laws of science considering the metals suffer no entropy and can affect beings that are not scientifically quantifiable he's also intentionally lying about the size of the numenorian army..and that both its soldiers and the trolls and such he mentions possess comic book style super human strength.

that said the other guys a pathetic clown for thinking Numenor stands a chance against the US military...when a couple bombing raids with napalm and MOABs would end the conflict instantly and collapse Numenorian society into a dark age like oblivion..or that how they breed so slowly..that the US population can easily sustain the losses and raise armies faster.

your not writing a fanfiction battle between two enlightened souls or even one highly educated...soul and a troll..you've got two demented lunatics and liars slugging it out

also don't sit here and pretend this isn't a blatant flame thread designed to insult myself JMS..Mike and every one else on this forum practically

[Praeothmin]

Actually it's a blatant flame thread designed to insult RSA and his "followers", except, as always, SWST got the facts wrong...
-An engineer can be an idiot, as the falling bridges and overpasses made following engineering plans made by engineers can attest to;
-A mechanical engineer improvising himself as a military leader is certainly not proff of his "competence" in war, or combat tactics, in general;

Light Moon wasn't arguing the Numeroans could win against modern day USA, he said they could win against the confederate army, the army the engineer based his analysis on, the one with no automated combat, abysmal aim, no airplanes, bad combat strategies, and no defense against magic...

[Admiral Breetai]

of course he twisted everything to get it wrong

I wonder what spawned this though? and yeah engineers do act stupid from time to time or outright corrupt when you consider entire buildings and what have you have collapsed specifically due to one engineer and his greed or in this case his utter inability to reason

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Actually it's a blatant flame thread designed to insult RSA and his "followers", except, as always, SWST got the facts wrong...

Show me where I insulted darkstar in this story.

-An engineer can be an idiot, as the falling bridges and overpasses made following engineering plans made by engineers can attest to;

Strawman. Nowhere did I say that all engineers are smart.

-A mechanical engineer improvising himself as a military leader is certainly not proff of his "competence" in war, or combat tactics, in general;

Strawman. Clearly you did not catch the joke.

Light Moon wasn't arguing the Numeroans could win against modern day USA, he said they could win against the confederate army, the army the engineer based his analysis on, the one with no automated combat,

Star Wars has automated combat.

abysmal aim,

Star Wars LAAT turrets can shoot hallfire missiles from the air according to the RotS novelization.

no airplanes,

Star Wars has airplanes.

bad combat strategies,

Are you going to claim that Star Trek military warfare is more competent than that of Star Wars, or that the Confederate had bat combat strategies?

and no defense against magic...

I wasn't aware that modern day Earth had a defense against magic.

[Admiral Breetai]

it's funny how he instantly goes onto trek

sweet jesus SWSt let it go this is fucking pathetic and sad

[StarWarsStarTrek]

seems like both parties in your fanfiction are stupid bastards.

How so? Do you actually have any evidence supporting this?

mister "i have a degree and am a glorified janitor"

So you think that a mechanical engineer is a glorified janitor? Jeez, what an amazing job you must have.

is completely ignoring that First age Elf Dwarf and second age Numenorian steel is in many cases superior to our own

Prove it. Actually, don't, because our imaginary Chang actually explains this: it doesn't matter, because they'll simply be shot from hundreds of meters away, bombed from above the clouds of blasted from beyond the horizon.

and completely defies the laws of science

So what?

considering the metals suffer no entropy

Prove it.

and can affect beings that are not scientifically quantifiable

So what?

he's also intentionally lying about the size of the numenorian army..

He hasn't gotten to that part yet.

and that both its soldiers and the trolls and such he mentions possess comic book style super human strength.

They have above average strength. They do not have super human strength comic book style, unless if you have an example of one of them lifting a car and hurling it a hundred meters.

that said the other guys a pathetic clown for thinking Numenor stands a chance against the US military...when a couple bombing raids with napalm and MOABs would end the conflict instantly and collapse Numenorian society into a dark age like oblivion..or that how they breed so slowly..that the US population can easily sustain the losses and raise armies faster.

your not writing a fanfiction battle between two enlightened souls or even one highly educated...soul and a troll..you've got two demented lunatics and liars slugging it out

also don't sit here and pretend this isn't a blatant flame thread designed to insult myself JMS..Mike and every one else on this forum practically

As some constructive advice, stop putting in ".."'s in between your lines for no reason.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Light Moon's response.

Darth Chang's opening post:

Even if we were to equalize the numbers and logistics of both sides; factors that, as I shall point out later, are heavily in favor of the United States, this is still a one sided curbstomp.

ROTLAMO. The Numenorians had armies of many millions.

The United States military has firearms that can shoot up to 1000 RPM with kilojoules of energy from hundreds of meters away.

Bull. Here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48

I don't see any 1000 RPM shooting, do I?

Tell me, Light Moon, how exactly are the Numenorians going to stop that?

I don't see kilojoules of energy in the above video. Firecrackers are that level and we can clearly see what they do.

Even if their swords were extreme-wank-they-can-cut-through-ten-feet-of-steel magical items, it doesn't mean for jack shit if they get hit from a hundred meters away before they have any chance of actually hitting the soldiers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pot6c7H8 ... re=related

Uh huh, so hundreds of meters of range. Meanwhile, the Numernorian archers were described as having leagues of attack range. Kilometers, to be more precise.

That's the advantage that the US has; they can hit the Numernorians long before they can hit back, and at hundreds of rounds per minute, a Numenorian army of tens of thousands would be reduced and routed within minutes due to sheer volume of fire and the Numernorians' inability to do jack all to fight back.

No, they'll be laughing as they pick off the idiots from leagues away.

This isn't even taking into account motars and artillery fire with megajoule level firepower, or hellfire missiles with gigajoule level firepower.

Megajoules? Gigajoules? ROFLAMO.

How the fuck are Numenorians in close, medieval style shield formations going to cope with artillery pounding their position from literally beyond the horizon, taking out dozens of men per shot while they sit on their asses, cowering in fear?

Simple; you have no evidence that they can fire at these ranges. There are many videos of troops engaging at a few dozen meters range.

As for beasts such as trolls, modern anti tank weaponry, design to penetrate modern composite armor,

Which can be destroyed by running into trains.

can easily blow a hole through a troll, who, as you seem to forget, is made out of you know, flesh,

Better than metal that can be dented by a fire hydrant.

or simply massed small arms fire.

You mean the trolls which Numernorian archers have hard time taking down?

A troll would have to run several hundred meters through hundreds of RPG's, M16's and other fire raining down on it.

No, it would have to run through a few meters of small arms fire, which would take about a second.

This is compounded by the United State's airforce, which has complete monopoly over the Numenorians in every conceivable away.

Dragons on your ass.

US aircraft can fly at over 40,000 feet;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yauoaW7HfAs

Right.

what the fuck will a Numenorian do against them?

Shoot them down? These helicopters are made out of metal that a guy with an ax can crumble.

They can't even see the damn things, let along hit them!

If Numenorians can fire from leagues away, they can.

A B-2 bomber flying overhead a Numenorian formation could drop several MOABs, destroying the army and routing its remnants.

MOABs are wanked. In Iraq, I don't see these MOABs destroying buildings that infantry end up raiding with small arms.

The US has thousands of planes capable of doing just this,

Wank, I only see one at most in a firefight.

and there is quite literally jack all the primitive troops can do to fight back.

Primitive? The same race that has the pilantir?

The numenorians cannot do jack. If they try and march on a city, they get shot to bits from beyond the horizon artillery strikes, or from supersonic aircraft several kilometers in the air. And we're talking about dozens of numenorians being wiped out per airstrike or artillery strike, and these can be called in rapid succession, often several times per second.

No, you're cherry picking data so that you can make up your fantasy of having kilojoule hand weapons with ranges of hundreds of meters (when we can see from footage that most combat happens within a few dozens) with 1000 RPM (when we can see from footage that this is false), aircraft flying above the clouds (when we don't see any ground footage of this, instead we see them flying clearly visibly in the air) and beyond the horizon artillery (when this would have been useful many times when a few dozen meters of range is what is used)

No amount of magic swords will do any good against someone that can hit you from across the horizon.

fap fap fap.


Oh, and by the way, I noticed that you seem to cite nuclear weapons as evidence of them winning. This is ridiculous; I don't see any kiloton level weapons in Desert Storm! The footages of Hiroshima are contradicted by on screen evidence.

[Admiral Breetai]

How so? Do you actually have any evidence supporting this?]

I thought this was a fanfiction seems like this is more a butthurt troll thread aimed to spite I see given your reaction

So you think that a mechanical engineer is a glorified janitor? Jeez, what an amazing job you must have.

yes I do actually and considering your personal Messiah analog in this fic fucking designs toilet paper (at least according to sources hereO) for a living that guy who designes gardens as a hobby? who was it Kor? yeah he has a job that's blatantly better and he's vastly more qualified...

Prove it. Actually, don't, because our imaginary Chang actually explains this: it doesn't matter, because they'll simply be shot from hundreds of meters away, bombed from above the clouds of blasted from beyond the horizon.

see this isn't a fanfic it's just you trolling Darkstar myself and every one who disagrees with you

the rest of your post and this entire thread isn't worth even responding too because it's such an obvious troll thread

[Praeothmin]

it doesn't matter, because they'll simply be shot from hundreds of meters away, bombed from above the clouds of blasted from beyond the horizon.

Except that they can't aim, and don't know to use their equipment properly...
The Numeroans will just have to wait in line, losing perhaps one or two soldiers, and then once in melee range they will slaughter their enemies...

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Hey Praeothmin, Breetai said this:

seems like both parties in your fanfiction are stupid bastards.

I request evidence:

How so? Do you actually have any evidence supporting this?

Just like a classic politician, Breetai says a bunch of stuff but refuses to provide evidence; instead, he responds to a request of support for A...by restating A:

I thought this was a fanfiction seems like this is more a butthurt troll thread aimed to spite I see given your reaction

Are we going to see a warning for his ignoring of requests for evidence? But since you said:

I am a hypocrite[/i]

I suppose that I cannot expect fairness here.

[Praeothmin]

I don't see why Breetai should provide evidence when you request it since you fail to provide it when requested of you...

[sonofccn]

Well so far I'd have to give this debate to light moon or whatever his name is. He at the very least has provided evidence while all Chang has provided is hot air and unsupported assertions. Refrences to bombers and artillery with nary a citation or video of it in action. Sloppy work and typical of him too. :)

OC: through to be really accurate Change should be calculating US firepower not of of observable incidents but scaling down from a nuclear warhead which he'd calculate based off of a off hand refrence to Hiroshima being vaporized which he'd assumed meant incinerate a meter beneath the fondation, after all someone otherwise might have built a basement and it might not be vaporized, and call it a lower, conserative limit. ;)

[Trinoya]

Heh, sonofcnn, that made my day. Very much so.